FW update made my A7RII a piece of junk - can I return it? Iris issue.

[tabinnorway]

I recently moved from Canon to a complete Sony setup. I got the A6300, the A7RII etc. I did this as a result of reviews and my own tests. Everyting was good. Then I upgraded the firmware of my A7RII and my Sony FE 55m F/1.8 ZA. Now the camera is about as useful as a paper weight.

Here is the problem: With the new firmware, the A7RII stops down the aperture to taking aperture before focusing. I don't know why. No other camera manufacturer would be stupid enough to do this. Why is this a problem? Simple. Do:

in a normally lit room
set your camera to Aperture priority mode

set your focus to AF-C

set the f-stop to F/9

try to focus

This should apply to the Sony A7 series with the latest firmware, the FE 55mm F/1.8 with the latest firmware and both the G-master lenses.

It gets worse. In a dimly lit room, try the same. Can you focus past F/4? No, not really.

The insane thing is that this is not a new problem. It's been a problem for a long time, but not a single review site has caught it. DPReview noticed it at the company event for the new 50mm the other day, and they put it in a footnote in their article. A FOOTNOTE. That the A7RII can't focus inside with that lens. At all! I mean - talk about being bought and paid by Sony!

[sttotev]

I've noticed this too. Stupid indeed. For now I've set to AF-S. I don't use smaller apertures than f4 for dim light anyway, but it is a problem when you want to (with a flash for an example). 

[JohntheMakem]

Hi

I discovered this problem recently at a fashion shoot. All 6 of my lenses "failed" so it's got to be the lousy closed aperture focusing system. This is devastating to me and my photography and so I have spent every spare moment researching this without success. There isn't a work around (you should need such a thing for a high end camera costing several thousand). You can in AF-S get some focus successes but that defeats the object and as you said no-one at Sony has done anything about it. I have contacted several Sony "Artisans" in they hope they know a work around or can use their influence to get a firmware fix started....but nothing. It seems they all believe the universe is called Sony and despite their god-like status refuse to put out anything in the media which shows Sony do ***** up. Excuse my sarcasm... I'm angry! I refuse to give up and am sending emails, posting comments, making complaints in the hope I get somewhere.

To cut s long story short my friend I'm afraid the problem is still there and there's no fix in sight yet.

To anyone else reading this, consider this. If Sony crippled the A7RII because of the focus shift problem with the G Series lenses (that was the reason they did it) what's to stop them doing it to the new A9? Imagine if Sony's flagship sports super camera couldn't track anything... Think about it! In the meantime Sony, GET THIS FIXED!

[JohntheMakem]

There IS a cure for this problem if you have some non-native lenses...buy a Metabones IV adapter and attach the lenses using the GREEN MODE. It fixes the problem and the attached lenses focus wide open using the maximum aperture. Obviously this doesn't help with the 55mm f1.8 lens or any other Sony lens as they don't attached via the Metabones but with any non-native lenses it cures the problem.

When using the Metabones IV adapter in Green Mode a couple of the focusing extras like EYE-AF are disabled  and Green Mode isn't as super quick as the "Advanced" mode but that's a small price to pay for once again having a camera that works as I would wish. I'm not too bothered about the disabled extras as one of the excellent Metabones after sales care features is they constantly develop and upgrade their firmware regularly and it wouldn't surprise me if solve this problem in the near future...

As with yourself I am now stuck with my 55mm f1.8 lens - astonishing optical quality but doesn't work on the same manufacture's camera! As my wife (who is very smart) said as she was beating me over the head about buying a A7RII camera because it doesn't work, Canon and Nikon make cameras and that's their speciality, Sony are an Electronics Corporation. I hate to say it but she is so right. Only Sony would put themselves in a position by manufacturing lenses that do NOT work well with their cameras when other rival firms CAN if you use the Metabones IV adapter. An astonishing oversight in my opinion!

So, my friend, there's your answer. Don't buy Sony lenses until they solve the problem, buy a Metabones IV adapter and some Canon lenses. I need a 50mm prime for my photography so I am now looking to dump my 55mm f1.8 and use the cash from it's sale to buy a new non-Sony 50mm lens. Maybe you should consider doing the same...

John

[sttotev]

I'm sorry, but I find your "solution" not helpful at all.. When I got the a7r II I was switching from Canon and I bought the mark4 metabones adapter. The focus was good for a non-native glass, but hunted a lot in less then ideal situations (i.e. dim lighting) and this was with top Canon L lenses like 70-200 f2.8L II (especially at the longer end), 85L II, 100L, 135L, 24-70 f4L, etc. 

When I bought my first few Sony native lenses (batis 25/2 and sony 55/1.8) I was amazed by the AF capabilities. I have almost completely switched to Sony now and my only Canon lens left is the 135L until a better Sony alternative arises. After that I will sell both the adapter and the lens and I don't consider to going back to this way of shooting. It is not reliable at all. 

Now when I tested it, the problem is only apparent when you shoot at f9 and less apertures in AF-C. I've just tried it with several lenses - batis 25, 55 1.8, 90 2.8 macro, so I guess it will be the same with every other native lens.

Now that I think about it, this problem is much more overexposed than it actually is. When does one shoot in AF-C at f9-11-13-16? There are some much more major problems with the Sony system than this one... 

Either way I believe the AF-S mode is always more accurate than the AF-C on every camera system. Even Canon's 1Dx is not perfect in servo mode.. 

[JohntheMakem]

Hi
Your reply is interesting and I do agree with a lot you have said, including the fact that not every camera has a great focussing system and also your point that sometimes AF-S is better than AF-C as a tool.
I suppose the problem surrounds the question you raised about who shoots at f8, f11 etc.
For me the answer is a lot of photographers use those apertures regularly. Many of the complaints circulating on the Internet about closed aperture focusing have come from people such as studio photographers, some of whom discovered the A7RII is practically useless in a studio environment. Imagine the situation, you set up your lighting, get your model ready, fire the strobes to meter your working aperture, it tells you your setting is f16, you adjust your camera and start the shoot only to find the camera won't focus. Yes you can tell your model to hold the pose and don't dare move whilst you get the focus using AF-S and stay there until the strobes fire. Even if your model has the patience to "freeze" for every shot, it isn't much use in a high energy shoot and it seems unprofessional. There are pros out there who have ditched the Sony system because they can't use it in a studio. Sony are aware of the studio issue.
Wedding and fashion photographers - everyone goes mad to shoot wide open for bokeh as if it's the only consideration. I have top lenses too, virtually all are primes and fast, as quick as f1.2 and some of them have an in focus depth of field of an inch or so wide open. The average "I must shoot wide open for bokeh" photographer may get the eyes in focus...maybe...but the expensive wedding dress or the outfit which is everything in a fashion shoot is blurred. Not good. A depth of field phone app will tell you a 3 feet area "in focus" requires an aperture of f8 with most slightly telephoto lenses if you're not too distant and outside that 3 foot area everything else is blurred. The guy who shoots the shot at f2 for an extra creamy background may get the bride's face but blurs the dress, the f8 guy gets the same shot and the dress is razor sharp. The bride will most likely prefer the shot where she can see the detail in her expensive dress.
It also took me years to realise that shooting wide open isn't always the best and also that I also now consider my lenses "sweet spot", when the lens really shines (important will a 42.4 million pixek sensor) and gives the shot an extra something.
I also have a Canon 70-200 f2.8 and it's sweet spot is either f5.6 or f8 depending on where you're working within the zoom range. Like you I also have the Canon 85mm f1.2 and it's sweet spot is f5.6. I have other lenses that don't really sing until they are at f11.
I am really interested in studio work, have shot weddings as a pro in the past (although those stressful times are behind me now) and I'm interested in fashion, hence my answer. Many others are also into that kind of photography and that's why there are a lot of them who are upset about this problem.
Honestly, I do agree with what you're saying and I see your point and perhaps you won't agree with what I am saying in this post. But I think I will add this one point to show how I see it...
Say I buy lens, costing well over a £1000, and Sony, by altering the focus system, are telling me I can't use f8 and beyond reliably, that I can't use the lens' sweet spot and that I should really stick to the 2 or 3 widest apertures and forget the rest of the lens' capabilities. Sorry, that's not good enough. There is isn't a Canon or Nikon user on the planet that would accept those provisors when spending a month's wages on a top lens.
There is only one simple answer to this that solves everything - Sony issues a firmware update that gives me and everyone else the choice of wide open or closed aperture focus. Not much to ask from a top camera costing over two grand! Cameras have been using wide open focusing since well before the first I picked up a camera 40 years ago! Are mirrorless cameras incapable of matching such basic technology that was achieved so long ago?
I love my A7RII, I just want Sony to step up and give me back what are such basic, general functions.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
John

[sttotev]

I see your point and I hope Sony will update the FW with such option.

I'm just saying it is strange and very rare to use AF-C with f9. Just use AF-S or even MF with whatever aperture you want for studio work and if you shoot fashion walks/movements open it a little bit - I'm not saying everything must be shot wide open, but f4 and f5.6 are very usable in almost every scenario... 

Why do you need continuos autofocus for studio portraits? As I said earlier, even with my 1Dx I have never relied too much on the Servo for portraits. Sports - yes, but portraits - not so much...

[JohntheMakem]

Fair comments and again I see your point of view. In a studio I could probably get away with AF-S shooting head shots as you have suggested. Although at half length and full length, he or she is moving, I'm moving and AF-C is better (I also really needed it at a recent live catwalk fashion show, I was lost without it).
Also switching from F11 or F8 to f5.6 may be a very good suggestion of yours. There are ways that can be done using strobes, ISO 50 etc. Yes I may lose a little depth of field but I'll get the shot.
Apparently the problem is down to Phase Detection focussing system disabling at f8. At f5.6 it should be ok although I haven't tested it. I also may be able to open the aperture up from f8 by a only fraction of a stop rather than a full stop to f5.6 (if you see what I mean) and still get an improved AF-C if the Phase Detection still works.
I'm pleased you replied as I never even considered that before you posted some suggestions. It could be a solution...thanks!
I will look into this afternoon. You've given me options to consider. I'm most grateful.
John

[Dayve2014]

Hi,

I've been using the relatively new Sigma 45mm Contemporary with my Sony a7riii and the af issues described are not present. The camera will open up to full aperture to focus then close down to the working aperture for the exposure.

However, I recently purchased a second back-up Sony a7ii and this behaves very differently. I've already updated the f/w to the latest and the only way I can get the camera to focus wide open is to set the lens to A (ie don't use the aperture ring) and set the camera's live view display to off.

It works but I really like the aperture ring and is one of the reasons I bought the Sigma.

I found the closed aperture issue out the hard way when shooting an event in a less than bright room. The camera did say it was in focus and released the shutter but I had so many out of focus images I nearly loss the commission.

My mistake was to assume that, as with any other camera system I've used including the later Sonys, that wide open focusing was a basic standard. I don't know if this is a lens f/w or camera f/w but I'm not confident that Sony will ever fix a mark 2 camera. They've moved on and are not interested in supporting older models like Fujifilm do.